| John: Ellen, you have been in the forefront of the | | | | market, composed of mom and pop businesses |
| stock world as far back as I remember. I first | | | | needing an image for a newspaper advertisement, |
| met you in the late 80’s. You owned | | | | students in need of a photograph for a |
| After-Image, the first stock agency to carry my | | | | homework assignment, or a church group in need |
| work. You sold After-Image to Tony Stone. Since | | | | of a picture for a flyer, is only a fraction of that |
| that time you have broadened your range of | | | | size, it is still a huge market. Perhaps those |
| experience in a number of ways. Can you catch | | | | buyers will end up at a Micro site, or perhaps, with |
| us up to date on that range of experience? | | | | a Google search, they may end up at a |
| Ellen: One of my earliest memories of you, John, | | | | photographer’s site. Do you think this is a |
| is bringing Sarah Stone to your office in SF in the | | | | market segment worth going after by individual |
| late 1980s. You had a baby Mac and were just | | | | photographers? How big do you think that |
| starting to play around with Photoshop. I | | | | market is? |
| remember you asked me if I knew where you | | | | Ellen: I disagree with the $20 billion figure. Is that |
| could get some photos of clocks to put into your | | | | Dan Heller’s? I think it is and when I read his |
| photos. Free or cheap photos…so you were on | | | | logic (I may not remember it correctly so Dan |
| the cutting edge of needing microstock and | | | | don’t get on your high horse!) I felt it was |
| didn’t even know it. Neither did I. | | | | faulty. For now I recommend that photographers |
| Since those days I have worked at Corbis as | | | | who have general collections of average |
| Executive Editor, was the first employee at | | | | quality…ok admit it…there is always average in |
| Artville’s photo collection after it was | | | | every field…put that work in microstock. I |
| purchased by Image Bank, part of the initial team | | | | don’t feel comfortable recommending trying |
| that started Workbookstock, was the first | | | | to reach the world of users from the high school |
| employee at UpperCut Images and had a brief | | | | blogger to the church website via direct sales |
| and very unsatisfactory stint at SuperStock. Since | | | | unless the workflow is completely seamless. Even |
| 2006 I have worked as a sole proprietor offering | | | | so, I don’t think most professional |
| appraisal services (valuation of future revenue | | | | photographers will want to deal with the traffic |
| streams from stock photography collections), as | | | | that opening the doors completely will cause. The |
| an expert witness and consultant on general | | | | price expectations are so low that they might find |
| stock photography issues at Dreamstime | | | | themselves always answering emails and phone |
| (microstock) and to individual emerging and | | | | calls in regard to lowering license fees. The goal |
| seasoned stock photographers. Currently I’m | | | | should be to get a certain kind of work into |
| writing a book based on the 100+ blogs I wrote | | | | microstock, other types in a high end rights |
| at Dreamstime. | | | | managed collection or license that directly. |
| I’ve gone from rights managed to royalty | | | | I actually recommend that some images go on |
| free to microstock. I guess you could say that | | | | flickr under the Creative Commons copyright. I |
| I’ve seen it all. | | | | have some compelling research that shows that |
| John: Years ago I heard Tony Stone give a | | | | for some, this is a way to build reputation and |
| speech in which he said that “Someday a | | | | actually make money. I hope to be able to |
| huge meteor will hit the earth and stock | | | | present this and some other information about |
| photography as we know it will cease to | | | | unusual places to license images at a seminar in |
| exist”. Is that meteor getting close? Could | | | | the fall at PhotoExpo. |
| it be Micro? | | | | John: To be able to effectively monetize those |
| Ellen: Rather than a large meteor hitting and | | | | and other markets as individuals, outside of |
| exploding the world, destroying stock | | | | traditional agencies, photographers will need tools, |
| photography, as Tony knew it back before he | | | | specifically web tools, to deal with distributing their |
| left the industry, the change is more like a benign | | | | images, handling licensing and sales, and tracking |
| growth. As it grows bigger and bigger it becomes | | | | abuse. One possible answer to that need is |
| invasive and can be as deadly as a malignant | | | | ImageSpan. Do you know if ImageSpan could be |
| tumor. | | | | a viable solution, and do you know of any others |
| The industry has made the mistake of creating | | | | on the horizon? |
| too many of the same images over and over | | | | Ellen: ImageSpan just announced the 2.0 version. I |
| again. This is because instead of nurturing the | | | | had an early preview by the ImageSpan staff and |
| photographers who have vision to combine both | | | | was very impressed. They have seemingly |
| art and commerce to produce unique images | | | | thought of everything. Of course, photographers |
| within the standard salable subjects, they let | | | | still have to do their own marketing to drive |
| creative decisions be driven by previous sales | | | | traffic to the site but the services provided by |
| results and creative research based all on the | | | | Imagespan are sensitive to SEO. |
| same sources. This has resulted in a glut of | | | | John: Traditional shooters fear the demise of the |
| images that all look alike. I like to call them the | | | | industry because of Micro. Micro shooters are |
| image de jour…everyone runs out and shoots | | | | starting to feel the demise of their world by the |
| the same style and subject with the same look | | | | entry of traditional shooters into Micro. Do you |
| on the same day, it appears. | | | | think that traditional shooters need to be in Micro? |
| I believe that one reason that microstock had | | | | Do you think that the entry of traditional shooters |
| explosive growth aside from the price point was | | | | into Micro Stock is going to “ruin it” for |
| that users could find one-of-a-kind images. Now | | | | the Micro shooters? |
| that the major production companies are putting | | | | Ellen: I think it is a mistake for traditional RM/RF |
| the same old, same old but ‘new’ images | | | | shooters to have put high production value |
| into micro in great volumes, the same problem | | | | images into microstock. It is very difficult to |
| could arise there. | | | | make back investment on an expensive shoot |
| John: I am hearing predictions that Google is the | | | | even if the resulting images are on multiple |
| ultimate stock search mechanism, and that | | | | microstock sites. Plus if higher paying clients can |
| someday all the searches will be done on Google | | | | get the same material on micro, why would they |
| image search…even including Agency | | | | pay more? Now the toothpaste is out of the tube |
| collections. Can you comment on that? | | | | and there is no going back. Clean simple images in |
| Ellen: I don’t know the answer. What I do | | | | all the popular genres do very well on micro and |
| know is that Google has taught us all how to | | | | that is where they belong. |
| search. We no longer look for anything with just | | | | John: What do you see the stock industry looking |
| one or two words. The vast amount of | | | | like two years from now? Five years from |
| information on the web compels us to become | | | | now? |
| more and more specific in our use of search | | | | Ellen: More direct sales. In five years? Maybe the |
| terms and to use more words in a search. This | | | | only stock businesses are companies that add |
| knowledge spills over into how we search for | | | | value by scouring the web for the best work |
| images. I believe that photographers with | | | | within a genre….sort of back to photo research |
| collections on specific subjects and who have | | | | services. |
| implemented best practices as far as SEO goes | | | | John: What advice would you give any shooter |
| may find that they can make more money selling | | | | who wants to make a living shooting stock in |
| stock direct than with a stock company in the | | | | these turbulent times? |
| near future. | | | | Ellen: Think of your business as a multi-layered |
| Today I am excited about the prospect that we | | | | cake. Get your work into all the layers of the |
| may be at a convergence of technology and user | | | | business. DEVELOP a specialty and be the best at |
| behavior that will shortly enable photographers to | | | | it in the world. Even photographers on microstock |
| license their existing images. | | | | sites need to build their brands within the site in |
| John: I have heard estimates that the | | | | order to get maximum downloads. |
| non-traditional market for stock photography, | | | | John: Is there anything else you would like to |
| made up of those who buy and/or license photos | | | | share with us? |
| outside of the traditional infra-structure of stock, | | | | Ellen: Buy my book to be issued by Watson Guptill |
| is as big as $20 billion a year. Even if that | | | | (Random House) next year. |